In this week’s video we go over the results from the survey I conducted a couple of months ago. This survey asked you, the audience, a series of questions built around the idea of how video games are currently being taught in today’s curriculum, as well as asked you how you believe it should be taught.
A major goal of this channel has been to bridge the gap between video games and academia so that the themes brought up in deeper stories could be used in the curriculum for humanities and ethics taught in everyday curriculum. The results of this survey confirms that I am not alone thinking that this is possible.
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1. Introduction: 0:00 – 3:32
2. Survey Results (What Games Are Currently Being Taught in School): 3:34 – 7:47
3. What Games SHOULD Be Taught in School (Top 10): 7:48 – 9:45
4. Bias Accomodation (What Games Are Missing): 9:46 – 10:41
5. Analysis: 10:42 – 14:29
6. Outro: 14:30 – 15:33
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**What Game(s) Was/Were a Part of Your Curriculum (below the top 10)**
11. Bloodborne; Persona (series); Legacy of Kain (series); Papers Please; Civilization (series); Tetris = 5
12. Undertale; Sims (series); Half-Life; Shadow of the Colossus; Disco Elysium = 4
13. The Walking Dead (series); Celeste; Gris; Persona (series); This War of Mine = 3
14. Call of Duty; Gone Home; Xenogears; The Stanley Parable; Tomb Raider (series); Quake (series); Uncharted (series); Pathologic (series); Starcraft (series); Spore; Control; Drakengard; The Witcher (series); Elden Ring; Limbo; Inside; Super Smash Bros. (series); Kingdom Hearts (series) = 2
– GAMES WITH ONLY ONE VOTE WERE NOT COUNTED
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**What Games Should Be Taught in School?**
FULL LIST IN THE PINNED COMMENT DOWN BELOW
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10 Life-Changing Games You Can Finish in One Sitting:
Bioshock Video:
Videos on Dark Souls and Bloodborne:
Deus Ex Video:
Fallout Videos:
Metal Gear Videos:
NieR Videos:
Observer Video:
Planescape Torment Video:
The Most Profound Moment in Gaming History:
Ichihara Kazu
14.04.2023I took science class in high school and didn't learn much about history. That time I was into assassin's creed ezio trilogy and say, it was kind of bummer to know I don't get anything about machiavelli at school.
Cats Rule
13.04.2023So I weirdly work at the intersection of how we prepare teachers, and this video didn’t hit the mark as far as how we communicate about education for a few reasons. First, you consistently conflate “academia” with “education,” and you also use “curriculum” in some confused ways. I understand why you did that, but for people more “versed” in the field’s jargon, it threw me afield. Academia primarily refers to post-secondary work (so the previous comments about video games being researched are 100% right). Most of the use cases you discussed are more applicable where motivation in school matters, elementary and secondary education. Curriculum is a super broad term, but it mostly refers to purchased materials by districts and given to teachers to use in classrooms. I think the better word for what you are referring to is lesson materials, primary sources, or other indicators that video games are a resource teachers can use. I think(?) your argument is you want teachers, probably K-12 teachers, to use video games as a pedagogy tool to increase motivation. Your dismissal of Minecraft was actually very funny, and ironic, because they have actually developed some neat education tools for using Minecraft as a “virtual classroom,” and there is definitely further applicability in the sciences.
Troye Teryx
13.04.2023I was waiting for Spore😢, it awakened my interest in evolution. And Sky blazer which is goated as a game of 90s with a story that actually references one of the story of Lord Hanuman and Garuda, that story being very underrated even in India.
Davlavi
13.04.2023Love your mission statement.
rubinelli
13.04.2023I feel none of the games on your list maximize the actual strengths of the medium. For me, games are didactically at their best when they show you how to interact with systems instead of telling about them. Yes, Bioshock explores objectivism and lets you hear audio diaries of the rise and fall of its setting, but a game like Europa Universalis lets you engage with the forces that led to Illuminism and colonialism, for example. Nier Automata may have profound things to say about existentialism, but they are said in cutscenes, not in gameplay.
okcali
13.04.2023I'm so glad you featured to the moon in your video. That one absolutely floored me, it did not get the attention it deserved at all.
DARKͶNES DKZR
13.04.2023I would include Blasphemous to the list, though it would probably fit better in a Spanish setting rather than an American one.
okcali
13.04.2023i'm confused by your regards for alan wake. it was good, dont get me wrong and I love remedy but it seems vastly outclassed by control. The whole "revealing" the story and dealing with the horror of creation was somehow both too obvious and too meta at the same time.
Acmnin
13.04.2023You can’t have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat!
Dr F
13.04.2023Imagine incorporating a Japanese man's high school wish fulfillment fantasy waifu game (like persona) into a class. I'd drop out.
Eiko Carol
13.04.2023The Mother/ Earthbound Series, Undertale
Hades, Okami
Stardew Valley, Harvest Moon Series
Journey, Flower, ABZU
Papers Please
The Fire Emblem series is a direct descendant of the war games that were taught to Napoleon, only the games pieces have character arcs now. It can be used to explain a (insert soft science here) perspective on war and it's incredibly numerous effects.
Kingdom Hearts series (yes, really), though that would probably be someone summarizing large chunks of the series, and having the students play specific parts that are good examples of the philosophy that it sometimes handles well.
Not sure where you would put this, but there are games that are great examples of desensitization, like Carmageddon, that can be a 'teach by example' tool to explain how context, stated or not, shapes how humans perceive things and other people.
I know you wanted to specifically talk about video games in relation to be being tools to teach the soft sciences and maybe the written or theatrical arts. Just, do not underestimate multi-solution puzzle games. The Room series are linear logic puzzle games, which are nice, but not what I'm talking about. I mean games, like the Legend of Zelda series, where one puzzle has multiple solutions, which vary depending on what items you have. Creative problem solving is a skill that should be encouraged starting at a young age, but is often suppressed in educational facilities by the societal need for the individual to conform to society. … But Minecraft might be too distracting.
I will point out that all the games you mentioned utilize violence as a common mechanic of game play. This doesn't matter in a relaxed/ personal environment, but for education, the educator must be aware of how the tools chosen to teach the subject teach other things at the same time. All of the students may come away from the class thinking all video games should have a combat system as a major part of the game play.
Game Ako
12.04.2023with that being said, mgs series should be in the curriculum. 🙂
SilverInkblot
12.04.2023The actual playing of the games seems like more of a problem than the logistics of it – how could you possibly keep everyone on the same page (as it were)? Do you simply fail if you can't beat that one boss? Or if you aren't comfortable with blood splatters across the screen? There have been many games I personally am locked out of playing because first person mode makes me nauseous. And while I'm aware there are plenty of thematically great horror games, there's no way in hell you'll ever get me to play one =B
Red4616
12.04.2023i would recommend "what remains of edith finch" to literature teachers and later on to students, it is a good entry level to appreciate videogames as a valid narrative experience
Kyle Henderson
12.04.2023Vagrant Story – grief, brainwashing, repressed memory, faith as an aspect of society, the lust for power, religious symbolism, the inner child, knowing yourself
Mateus GreenWood
12.04.2023I don't know man, a lot of games i love are obscure and criptic, imagining a gruop of uninterested teens gathering around to discuss them makes them feel mundane. Not to mention an overabundance of developers or desegnires sounds like a segway into a videogame crash.
panic
12.04.2023Psychonauts 1 and especially Psychonauts 2 !
Jose Pablo Mora
12.04.20231:47 was that madman playing league of legends with a controller?
Maximal Silver Lioness
12.04.2023Music in games could learn in schools. I heard some people saying that classic music is dieing, but there's so many games that type music in them.
Melancholy Chill
12.04.2023Good idea, unless its mandatory
Geraldo Neto
12.04.2023I'd like to add a perspective on Persona (specially 5) and Disco Elisyum: while I agree they contain much less about philosophy, they are filled with sociology, even more than Bioshock I'd say. They make the Dominant vs Dominated struggle plain to see, bringing the much needed class conciousness that socialism promotes, and if the player would dive deeper on the subject, they would find the Dialetical Materialism created by Marx and Engels, which has great phylosophical value.
Wookiin
11.04.2023Bioshock, it's entanglement of its mechanics throughout its story and the framing of the narrative twist would he a wonderful subject of why games make good stories by being interactive
Anthony Ellerman
11.04.2023I feel like actually playing games is more difficult for non-gamers than gamers realize
If games are taught, requiring the game to be played without an optional video-based alternative would be rough
Games with zero actual difficulty like gone home could be used effectively in my opinion
Big Foot
11.04.2023I learned the most from world history in high school.
The simple fact that the teacher had us draw and color a picture describing the lecture of the day every day made us all soak it in by making it a tiny bit fun.
Video games would kick that up 100X.
Eugene Kuznetsov
11.04.2023Great video, Max! Thinking now about other philosophical games, it dawned on me that I'd never heard you talk about Morrowind. It's filled to the brim with intricate metaphysical concepts, makes great points on subjectivity of history I haven't seen in any other game, and is generally a masterpiece. Would love to see a video from you!
InconsistentlyConsistent
11.04.2023Genuinely surprised to not see Assassin's Creed on any of these lists. It has an entire game mode dedicated to educative purposes.
And Oregon Trail has just been remade and it genuinely looks amazing. And would be a perfect modern example of how well gaming could do within the primary and secondary educational systems.
Sarath Rohith
11.04.2023Hey max,just a question.
Is any other media like music,movies are used in the academia?
Morraak
11.04.2023In my opinion, there probably exists a game that can fit almost any subject in academics, you just need to know what to look for. Some subjects I could think of is
Psychology: Garage: Bad Dream Adventure
Science and Speculative Evolution: Spore, Thrive
Mythology: Black Book (Slavic)
Ethics: I have No Mouth and I Must Scream, Frost Punk, Pathologic 2
Tech: CRUMB Circuit Simulator, JUNO New Origins
Language: Heaven's Vault
Music: Rocksmith
Daniel Duncan
11.04.2023Playing that long con. Creating the demand for a thing before the thing even exists.
Saymon99
11.04.2023I think you're focusing too much on the philosophical and psychological aspects of education. I believe you're thinking about game education just like we're thinking about book education: we're analyzing the themes, ideas, and motivations of the heroes in its contents. The games have much more to offer. Minecraft is the best example because theres so much you can do in it. It's not just about resource management and collaboration, as you mention, but most of all about creativity. In the upcoming era, where AI can do basically any mechanical thing our brain is able to do, why don't we focus our efforts in school on teaching kids more creativity and how to make use of the tools provided? But on the other hand, Portal or other logical games can be used as extensions of math. The main reason we teach algebra or trigonometry in school is to increase our logical thinking skills. We can do old-school, boring math, or we can just let kids and teenagers play Portal, Superminimal, or even Hexcells and Tetris. If the idea is to learn how to solve complex problems as fast as you can, then just take complex mechanical games and let people have fun while solving them. Or how about history? In the last three Assassin's Creed games, there was a "Discovery Tour" mod. Again, we can teach kids about ancient Egypt the way we are doing it right now by giving boring lectures, or we can just let kids actually see ancient Egypt or Greece the way it was and meet and talk to actual historical figures. There are obviously much more examples and aspects, and the discussion of using games in teaching is much more complex to put in a YouTube comment or YouTube video, but it's still a valuable discussion. It's just that the main problem is that we're still thinking about school like we thought about it in the 19th century. The tools are now much different, both in school and after we get on the job market. We should completely change the way we prepare kids for adult life as members of society, because society itself has changed a lot.
Mattchester
11.04.2023I wonder if and how are games used in architecture classes? They seem like a great way of teaching about visual guidance and utopian/dystopian architecture, especially with games like Half-Life, Bioshock or Dark Souls.
Ariel Osorio
10.04.2023Interesting that you say no game measures up to the profundity of the legendary classic literature available. I am a big fan of Crime and Punishment actually. But I guess I have 2 issues. One, films don't reach those levels either, yet are shown in classrooms the world over to get kids to relate to certain ideas and themes. Second, from a literary perspective, games have reached the levels of those books. I mainly read and play video games, they're my favorite things. I have video game characters I would put over most classic literature characters, some games exercise themes on the same level as anything ever. From a storytelling perspective, games totally have and I think for English classes, that would be awesome to use in class. How FF7 builds its layered plot and such, how Chrono Trigger has that intimate connection with the planet, how System Shock uses the medium to emphasize the narrative, etc. Fron a English storytelling perspective, games totally have value
tba-
10.04.2023I´m shocked that SOMA wasnt even mentioned. Great philosophical as well as ethical questions are there for the player to experience, rather then just ask them theirself. Also a huge plus is the rather simple gameplay, that even non gamers can get a hang of rather quickly. and talking of quickly, the game doesn´t take that long to finish, also something to consider when thinking of which games should be taught in school.
So yeah, im pretty suprised it wasnt even mentioned, as it checks all the boxes in my opinion.
TaihouNaishi
10.04.2023In my opinion, a brilliant game that should be taught is Drakengard 3. Often misunderstood title that pictures inevitable calamities of human lives in a more friendly and immersive way than NieR:Automata does in my honest opinion.
[Spoiler alert]
You carve your own path to destruction and bond with your friends in a way you come to understand how painful their loss or sacrifice can be so you value them more and question the sense of your adventure that should be aiming for greater good after all
Philippe Gosselin
10.04.2023A laudable goal. Unfortunately, the woke cancer has taken hold of not only Academia but the game industry far and wide. I would table the idea for the time being, lest you may risk having your idea usurped by the ideologues. That being said, the Peterson Academy is probably a great fit, one of the few at the moment.
Arman Daneshjoo
10.04.2023Interesting results.
SamWiz Gamgie 3rd
10.04.2023Bioshock should be taught in school. Would you kindly?
Maxens Wlfr
10.04.202311:20 Persona is also filled with philosophy. I only played 4 for now but it's just one huge application of Jung's theories (shadows, ego, persona)
No One
10.04.2023Max, I see you well enough regard attention to psychoanalytic theory, and Freud and Jung particulary, but what you think on humanistic pscyhology and for example Victor Frankl's, or Abraham Maslow's works, and how they, or do they have any impact on video games or movies?
Omar Zeid
10.04.2023Pathologic
miki49
10.04.2023MGS3 really is number one when it comes to teaching how we should act amongst one another, including complete strangers. Chronotrigger tells us how to tackle free will and existentialism in the best of ways. Final fantasy encourages how to build and maintain long lasting, meaningful relationships.
Christoffer Emil Juul Hansen
09.04.2023Good sugestions. I will though add that your argument about Dark Souls not being that accessible for casuals, might be prevalent for some of the other games too. For someone who might not have that much experience with video games, even mario can seem like a dark souls. Scarier games like Silent Hill, might also not be everyones cup of tea, which is important to look at when games are used for educational purposes. Personally i would like to add "Journey" to the list. An interesting video as always 🙂
Il Re Giallo
09.04.2023I'm still waiting for your video on "Disco Elysium". There's a lot to talk about, but I expecially need a serious discussion about The Pale. I played the game a few months ago and I was disappointed to see there were not much theories about it online.
Maidenless Jess of Chaos
09.04.2023I used to slip music from games into the soundtracks of the shows we did at the arts school I taught at. Theme of Laura from here on out makes me think of the Secret Garden
Paxo Lito
09.04.2023Interesting topic, and good video. One thing i thought it lacked though : All of the games mentionned in your second list are about philosophy, class warfare, existential struggle, … Those are the themes conveyed and discussed, both intra and extra diegetically. This is fine of course, but it's the only way thoses games are adressed in this video.
I understood from your video and this list that the value those video games could add to a course or a curriculum, comes basically from their story, their themes, and their worlbuilding, which are all narrative devices. Deus Ex, Bioshock, Metal Gear, are all great games that shine mostly through the way they convey their story.
What i mean is, i think teaching using those games would be interesting if the teacher does not forget to include why is it that it works as a video game, and how the game designers convey the themes through video game media language and not just through cutscenes, or people telling you stuff. Because that's just the kind of thing you could get from a book, or a movie. A game like Fez could be used to teach perspective, a game like Cult Simulator could be used to teach critical time and ressource management, and so on.
In the end, i get from your video that it's not Metal Gear Solid that should be studied, but its themes, the characters and what they have to say on those themes. Compare it to cinema : when we watch a movie and we analyse it, we decypher the movie's language to understand what the director wants us to feel and think about. It's not just about what you have to say, but how you say it as well, which i think was a tad overlooked in this second list.
mrJety89
09.04.2023Undertale, and possibly Delta Rune if the author ever finishes it. It does have a chapter 2 now
Azz-Rushman
09.04.2023I learnt supply and demand playing MMOs while trying to build a fortune of ingame currency.
When nobody was fishing, I started fishing and selling the loot.
When nobody was selling a certain item, I'd look for it and ask for more than average.
I'd check prices, negotiate, trade, haggle with items to compensate lack of currency and all that.
Eventually I was able to straight up buy endgame gear instead of competing in Open PvP zones for the crafting materials.
Also, Lineage 2 had a 60% crafting success rate. I wasn't into gambling.
I would rather just sell whatever crafting materials I got and spend some time trading and haggling to straight up buy the crafted gear from someone else.
Андрей Бахин
09.04.2023I think i've found the first person to be restricted to attend academias. Your point is literally idiotic, you have spent actual time to invest in products for kids that you have literally lost your mind, and now you want to spread the actually harmful idea of playing video games into schools. Games should be restricted to be played for people over 12 years in my opinion, because they are useless and they are addictive. Find a real hobby.
Ben-Tao (Beneton)
09.04.2023Amazing topic to discuss and the implementation of games into academics by focusing on Philosophy and psychology would be 10x more beneficiary than a lot of other subjects combined.
What I PERSONALLY*, would love to see on the list are two games. *This is just my subjective opinion. Take it how you will.
The first game, I would love to see to be though, don't laugh, is Genshin Impact. I don't know where to begin because there are a lot and a lot of it is intertwined but I'll provide some main points as a starting point. First of all, the world of Genshin is focused on a lot of mythologies from various cultures and countries. Secondly, the deities are focused on Ars Goetia. In other words, Demonology. There are also objects, and items that are based on various world sects that have left a lasting impact on us in the present. To put it bluntly, if there would be a subject that touches the game, then the subject would be the "Religious Philosophy of Teyvat." Mostly it's focused on religion and mythology but it's all linked with a greater sense of logic.
I don't want to write a paragraph to explain since it will take like 20k letters to explain it but I hope I gave enough good enough reason to study this game on a deeper level. Yes, there are a lot of content creators, and theory crafters that do touch on these subjects but most of them don't go that deepest level of the Iceberg.
The second game would be Mass Effect series. The game is focused 200 years in the future and the race evolution was sped up due to the discovery of ancient technology and the hardships to come after that. The philosophical implication for this game would be how can humans take control over The machines rather than becoming machines or even synergies with the machines. Also, the game is very well focused on trust building, communication, and leadership and have reasons to fight for one's ideals and survival.
Adam Eve
09.04.202314:24 🤣🤣🤣 That is comedy gold.
Not going to simulate depression tho, I'm not going back to that mindspace 😣
I'd probably cheat-engine it to just focus on the story. Worked for Doom Eternal 😂